41 ( +1 | -1 ) 2. ... Ne4is often played. It leads to an equal game, where both sides have the same chance of winning. 3. Bf4 is more positional and calm, with 3. Bh4 white tries to achieve an advantadge. A possible line is 3. ... g5 4. f3 gxh4 5. fxe4 c5. Nice position. Another line, which deserves respect is 3. h4. White gains an open line and can cause some problems with the thematic move g6.
34 ( +1 | -1 ) Probablydo you mean 2. ... d5 3. Bxf6 exf6, since 2. ... e5? is a blunder which leads to 3. dxe5 h6 4. Bh4 g5 5. exf6 with a better position for white. Anyway, if you want to keep your knight simply play 2. ... Ne4. I prefer that move since it does not imply a doubled-pawn, and you do not lose tempos since white has to protect his bishop.
but if I play 2 ... Ne4, I've got a knight in no mans land more or less, thats just going to get shifted with tempo loss when white develops... ??? this bishop move in the trompowsky looks like a great way to get most nf6 players right out of book?
36 ( +1 | -1 ) Hmmnnnn....Has anyone considered 2...Ng8 !? A reasonably successful variant of the Alekhine proceeds thus: Black can entertain attacking chances vs White's over-extended pawn. With the Trompowsky, a similar move, by Black secures the piece for later repositioning (perhaps to the e7 square after ...Nc6), & allows an attack on White's Bishop with ...h6, ...g5. Just an idle thought!
21 ( +1 | -1 ) It has caused some problems for me, Too!I once tried 1.d4 Rf6 Lg5 e6 and the Le7, and I played d5 later, but I don't think it went very well, though I didin't lose becouse of the opening...
37 ( +1 | -1 ) its hard to see how one can get a 'classical' development out of a trompowsky attack.... I just want to get my pieces out and on reasonable squares but the Trompowsky seems to prevent this on move 2!
I mean, I dont want tempo loss OR a knight way off that I cant protect, I dont want blocked in bishops or knackered pawn structure, white shouldnt be allowed this opening! if it can do all this! ;o)
27 ( +1 | -1 ) Psyched?!As many players value Knights highly (with myself being an exception) the Trompowsky can often have a psychological impact on the player of Black. ...Ne4 is still the most customary reply if Black doesn't want to lose their Knight immediately.
13 ( +1 | -1 ) Offbeat?I've seen once or twice a player of Black essay an early ...h6 (usually after 1...d5), thereafter following with ...Nf6 as normal.
51 ( +1 | -1 ) 2...Ng8"Has anyone considered 2...Ng8 !? A reasonably successful variant of the Alekhine proceeds thus: Black can entertain attacking chances vs White's over-extended pawn. With the Trompowsky, a similar move, by Black secures the piece for later repositioning (perhaps to the e7 square after ...Nc6), & allows an attack on White's Bishop with ...h6, ...g5. Just an idle thought!"
How about 1.Nf3 d5 2.Ng1!? :-)
Seriously, after for example 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Nf6 3.Nf3 White has developed two pieces and challenged the centre with d-pawn, whereas Black has...umm. What exactly?
67 ( +1 | -1 ) Handling the Tromp"Seriously, after for example 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Nf6 3.Nf3 White has developed two pieces and challenged the centre with d-pawn, whereas Black has...umm. What exactly?"
A solid position with few weaknesses or overextension!
As a sometimes Tromp player, I'd say the toughest line to face is 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. Bf4 d5. Then White can choose between 4. f3 Nf6 5. e4!? transposing to an OK line in the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit and the less risky 4. Nd2, which can be met either with 4...Nxd2 5. Qxd2 e6 6. O-O-O or 4...Bf5 5. e3 e6 6. Bd3 where Black has to work to develop comfortably but it's playable.
Also I don't think the lines where the knight gets taken are all that bad, the bishop pair helps Black defend and if you're worried about the doubled pawns on the kingside just play 2...e6.
47 ( +1 | -1 ) The trompowsky.1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 or Ne4 are perfectly playable. Here are some examples 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 3.e4 h6 4.Bxf6 Qxf6...and black has the bishop pair, NO doubled pawns in exchange for a strong white center which can soon be challenged...this leads to easy equality for black. Or 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 d5 4.e3 Bf5 5.f3 Nf6 is not so bad eitehr, so white has wasted a move with the knight...so waht whte has wasted a move with the bishop...white may be claiming a slight edge here, but no more than in the more common indian games.
I like this line! seems most sensible, and since the queen is out early you neednt worry! because the black bish has gone! Thanks SuperBlunder!
12 ( +1 | -1 ) It probably is the best line (though most Trompowsy players I've seen trade off the Bishop right away).
49 ( +1 | -1 ) i'm currently playing a trompowsky mini-tournament, and the most popular reply has been 2...c5 playing the white pieces of this variation, it seems to me that allowing black's queen to capture the b2-pawn (the one left undefended by 2.Bg5) might be a common theme. or maybe the pawn should be defended with Qc1 instead :)
i've gotten trounced pretty good playing both sides of this opening, but i want to explore it more because it seems fun with white and black.
31 ( +1 | -1 ) "1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 or Ne4 are perfectly playable."
I've always played 2.Ne4 I thought this was the correct response to reason with white? one night I was playing a guy at the chess club he played 2.Ne4 I played 3.Bf4 then he answered me with this move g5 what's that? if it were me I would have went for d5 which is a strong reply to 3.Bf4
35 ( +1 | -1 ) TrompovskyI am a tromp player and in my opinion the most difficult line to fight for an advantage against is 2....,d5 . After Bxf6 both gxf6 and exf6 give black a solid but dynamic position . Many top class Tromp players prefer the flexible 3.e3 where the game can transpose into a Torre Attack or Queens Gambit or even a Veresov
98 ( +1 | -1 ) Some games to see. . .If I were going to play this opening I would want to study the games of GM Gata Kamsky. I cant think of anyone that would know more about this type game & positions. For USA players; ccm Taylor Kingston once did an interesting annotation on it that appeared in the USA's ICCF magazine in the 80's, covering the ...Ne4 line & with ...c5 following. (Corr Exp.) Steve Wrinn played it against me in the 8th USCCC, ending in an entertaining draw, so he may be another source of some quality Tromp games. USCCC games are available on the Net and represent an excellent source of strong play and opening innovations, as entrants must be of Expert or higher rating to participate. When I've met it I've usually employed non-Ne4 lines. But had a very interesting time one game after ...Ne4 when WT played Bh4?! instead of Bf4. After ...d5 and an early ...Qd6, WT came to be in a bad way. Or I enjoy moves like g5 and h5 to follow ...d5 also. Which can be similar to some lines of the Caro-Kann 2 Knights with colors reversed. }8-)
4 ( +1 | -1 ) Some games to seeAussie GM Ian Rogers has used the trompowski!
4 ( +1 | -1 ) Some games to seeAussie GM Ian Rogers has used the trompowski!
25 ( +1 | -1 ) Online video covering the TrompThere is an online instructional video located at www.chess.fm by Pete Tamburro covering the Trompowsky attack for both sides. Shows how Alekhine dealt winth it and crushed it. So check it out, hurry, they change them quick there.
12 ( +1 | -1 ) Video...GM Julian Hodgeson plays it a great deal; indeed he's put out a number of videos on the opening (one of these got me to try it out--to good effect)!
154 ( +1 | -1 ) What I have learnt and found VERY interesting!!!Hey everyone,
The sharpest variation by employing 2....Ne4 is to play 3....c5 if black plays 3.Bf4. I played in a Trompowsky mini tourney here but did not enjoy it much ;-). One interesting line an IM had once told me is to play 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 g6!? 3.Bxf6 gxf6. Now the main point here is, white has thrown away a bishop for a knight, but in exchange black has a double pawn. So how is black to disolve the double pawn or make use of it. If black achieves to play ....f5 and plants his bishop on g7, white's throwing away teh bishop doesn't remain justified. So an interesting variation (that revolves around black trying to play f5 and white trying to prevent it as you will see) is :
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 g6!? 3.Bxf6 gxf6 4. e4 (preventing f5) 4....d6 (again threatening f5) 5. Bd3 (again preventing f5!) 5....Nc6 (attacking d4 and you'll know next why) 6.c3 (supporting d4) 6....Ne7! (again threatening f5!) 7.g4! (again preventing f5!) 7....h5! (again threatening to dislodge the g4 pawn and subsequently play f5!)
Seems pretty wild this line, but looks rather exciting too :-). I found it very beautiful when I was first shown this line and explained the reason behind each of the very logical moves :-).
This said, 2....Ne4 is still the most played line. However, I think 2....g6 is worth a try and to catch the opponent off-guard. Also, if white doesn't know the above, chances are that he will allow black to play f5 at some point and then plant his bishop on g7. After that, black is very happy, controlling e4 square and also having the double bishops.
6 ( +1 | -1 ) sorry 3...exf6sorry in my above post, everywhere it is 3....exf6 and not gxf6.