3 dimensional chess

3 Dimensional Chess

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loreta 32 ( +1 | -1 )
Dutch sideline Eventually,
I found it's difficult to play against 2. c3 in the Dutch defence (1. d4 f5).
White could follow with e3, Bd3, Nd2, Ne2 and then start a break with e4...
Could somebody suggest some plans for Black? In quick games, I tried few schemas for development, but they were not very effective... Some thoughts?
loreta 5 ( +1 | -1 )
g4 line Another possibility to disturb Black is 2. g4 (1. d4 f5)... Opinions?
ganstaman 104 ( +1 | -1 )
Against 2. c3, what do you think of the stonewall? That adds more support to e4 for black, and without a pawn on c4 black just has to play d5, right?

Another idea would be ...d6 and ...e5 so that when white plays e4, black can throw in ...f4!

Of course though, I haven't really checked these out (and besides, ever since I decided to switch back to the Dutch, no one's played 1. d4 against me -- it's as if they know I made that decision and are scared of the Dutch!). Have you tried either of these, and if so, how did they end up failing?

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As for the g4 gambit for white (on move 2 or even later). I've never respected it at all. I refuse to lose against it (well, it's hard enough to get someone to play 1.d4, imagine what I'd have to do to get them to play 2. g4). I think black can develop mostly normally and probably castle either side. Playing ...d5 may end up important to hold white back and free some room for black.

Also, if white the offers his h-pawn (1. d4 f5 2. g4 fxg4 3. h3), don't take it. White may actually have compensation then. 3...g3 works just fine.
arichallan 63 ( +1 | -1 )
Depending on the dutch setup you like You could try d6 and e5, d5 and e6, or a king's indian/Leningrad style setup with d6, e5 and g6, fianchettoing the king's bishop on g7. Also, you should decide where you want to put your knights - f6/c6, f6/d7. Putting the knight on d7 in the Leningrad set-up enables you to play c6 at some point, if you think that's important in the specific game. White's setup is fairly passive and shouldn't give anything more than equality.

I don't know much about the 2. g4 idea, but I've seen lines where white delays it and plays h3 and g4, especially with an e3-d4 setup. It's a sharp try to take advantage of black's f5, so the better tactical player, or better prepared player should win.
loreta 23 ( +1 | -1 )
No one plays d4? To ganstaman,
No one plays d4? It's strange... It seems in any environment at least 30-40% plays something different than 1. e4 - and almost at any of these moves it's possible to transpose to Dutch...
ganstaman 106 ( +1 | -1 )
Re: No one plays d4 Well, since I decided that I wanted to play the Dutch again, I may have only started a few games here as black. Most of the games I've played since then have been blitz here, and it seems to me that I just haven't played the right players since they've all played 1. e4.

Also, you may want to check out -> www.videochess.net

It's a GM who plays the Bird and Dutch (though he calls the overall system the Polar Bear System). If you look at his Polar Bear Videos, the 6th lesson is semi-relevant. It's a Kmoch-Alekhine game (-> www.chessgames.com ) that involves the Dutch Stonewall. The GM Henrik Danielsen mentions (when the video says about 4 minutes, though it counts time downwards and not up) that since white has not played c2-c4, black can play c7-c5 and get an active Stonewall gaining space.

Perhaps then a Stonewall with c7-c5 is the way to defeat 1. d4 f5 2. c3?
loreta 12 ( +1 | -1 )
Tnx, ganstaman I'll check that site - it'd be interesting...
--- And the idea of c7-c5 is interesting... The c7-c5 is sometimes good move in some settings of Dutch.
loreta 11 ( +1 | -1 )
More... Interesting and quite different lines after 2. Nc3 and 2. Qd3...
It seems, Dutch offers a rich bunch of possibilities....
ionadowman 48 ( +1 | -1 )
The 1.d4 f5 2.c3 set-up... ... looks for all the world as though White might be thinking of setting up a Stonewall: with 3.e3 and 4.f4. The ganstaman's idea reminds me of Max Euwe's anti-Stonewall set up. The thing might go 1.d4 f5 2.c3 e6 3.e3 d4 4.f4 c5 ...

But does White intend a Stonewall? Maybe he would prefer to set up something like 1.d4 f4 2.c3 e6 3.Nf3 d4 4.g3 c5 (or c6) 5.Bg2 ...6.0-0 ... 7.Nbd2 ... 8.Ne1 ... 9.Ndf3 ... 10.Nd3 ... If he can achieve this set-up without incurring trouble, he would have a pretty decent sort of game, it seems to me.

Cheers,
Ion
loreta 2 ( +1 | -1 )
Yep Interesting ideas, Ion....
schnarre 17 ( +1 | -1 )
Hmnnnnnnnnnn Vs 2. c3 I would probbly say, just go with 2...Nf6--a sound & thematic developing move--& see how White proceeds from there.

Vs. 2. g4, I've seen in OTB that 2...fxg4, 3. e4 d6, 4. Nc3 was the normal continuation.