2 player chess

2 Player Chess

Vote and you will uncover!
Wild name, real passions
[ Sign up | Log in | Guest ] (beta)
jstack 36 ( +1 | -1 )
rook vs knight+ 2 pawns I recently lost an ending. my opponent initially had a knight and 2 pawns and I had a rook and 1 pawn. Somehow he won my pawn and the had 2 pawns(one on g6 and the other on e6) if I remember right. I blundered my rook under time pressure, but I was wondering if this ending is a forced win or not for the side with the 2 extra pawns. Any thoughts or experiences? This was the first time I encountered such a position.
More: Chess
ganstaman 77 ( +1 | -1 )
-> www.k4it.de

That's a 6 piece tablebase, so with a KNPP vs KR, you can see exactly what the result should have been.

Also, note that without the pawns, it should be drawn, so your opponent probably had the only winning chances if they existed at all.

Not knowing the actual position, I played around with a few. Assuming that your opponent was white (so pawns on e6 and g6 are good), it seems to me that it's a draw most of the time, though only really black has losing chances.

If your opponent had the black pieces (pawns on e6 and g6 not as great), it seemed to me that almost every variation was drawn as long as no one did anything stupid.
ionadowman 232 ( +1 | -1 )
Not an easy endgame... ... but the N+2P has all the winning chances, pretty much, especially if the pawns are united. Defending against this lot isn't easy! The game aiel vs ionadowman featured a similar sort of ending:
w
Much earlier in the game I had given up a rook for a N and 2P, which differential had persisted pretty much until this position was reached after 47 moves. The game continued: 48.Kf1 Bd2 49.Bd6 Nf3 50.Kf2 Kd7 51.Ba3 Nd4 52.Rb7ch Ke6 53.Re7ch Kd5 54. Rd7ch Ke5 55.Re7ch Ne6 56.Rxh7 c3 57.Rd7 Ke4 58.Re7 Kd5 59.Bb4 c5 whereupon White gave up his bishop (60.Bxc3 Bxc3) to stop the immediate pawn rush, but lost the game in the sequel.
I've just recently finished a 100-plus move game that featured an asymmetric ending unique in my experience. R plus 2P vs B plus N. The side with the pawns might be said to have a slight material edge, and it is certain that the B+N has no winning chances at all. In fact I was always fairly confident of winning this endgame, though it does have its tricky moments...
The position after White's 72nd move:
b
Black finds he can't progress further on the K-side, so 72...a6!? (...a5! is probably better)
73.b4 cxb4 74.Rxh3 Rxh3 75.Nxh3 a5 76.Nf2 a4 77.Bc1 Rc6 78.Nd3 a3!
79.bxa3 bxa3 when 80.Bxa3 is not possible owing to 80...Rc3! 80.Ke3 a2 81.Bb2 Rc2 82.Bd4 b5 ... It took a further 20-odd moves to overcome White's resistance.
At one point shortly after the position reached here, Black has the opportunity to exchange N for rook-pawn, which would have led to a rook plus knight-pawn vs bishop. Watch out for this kind of ending, as they are very difficult for the stronger side to win. The position was something like this:
w
White played 84.Nc2, guarding the a1 square. But what if took the pawn? 84.Nxa2 Rg2ch 85.Kc3 Rxa2 86.Kb4 Ra8 87.Bg7 (say) Ra7 88.Bb2 Rb7 89.Kc5, which move keeps off the Black king. Somehow, Black has to bring his king across to protect the pawn thus freeing up ther rook to manouevre. Not the simplest of tasks! (A tablebase has shown that Black can win from here, but the process ain't what you'd call quick!
heers,
Ion
ccmcacollister 63 ( +1 | -1 )
Well said guys; My experience is similar .... ... That usually the ending will draw. [I can recall one particular draw having the rook vs his N+2p, being in otb vs an FM who really knows endgames very well.] But that mitigating factors will be king placements .... and if the pawns are connected, especially if advanced and well supported with the king, the N side gains in winning chances.
But that the more pawns you put on the board, eg three or four more to each side ... the more the Rook side starts to develop winning chances, particularly if the pawns are on opposite wings, or the N's pawns are anyway, Rook may likely win it. The N is a cumbersome defender for a double wing formation.
jstack 18 ( +1 | -1 )
the position I can't figure out how to insert a diagram, but I figured out what the position was when I lost the second pawn. I was white. I had a pawn on g4 and my rook on a6. My king was on e4. Black had pawns on g5 and e6. His knight was on e5 and his king on f6.
jstack 87 ( +1 | -1 )
An earlier position I stopped taking notation after my 32nd move due to time pressure. But even with time pressure its hard to explain how I can possibly lose this game. At some point for some reason I offered to trade queens by moving my queen to d5. Looking at the position with fresh eyes It seems like all I have to do is keep my pieces where they are and all he can do is move pawns. His knight can't move because of mating threats and his king and queen have limited mobility because they must protect the knight. Ugh! Get em next time I guess!
-
Stack,J (1614) - Vest,D (2217) [A43]
tuesday night fights

1.d4 c5 2.e3 d6 3.c4 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Be2 Bg4 7.h3 Bxf3 8.Bxf3 cxd4 9.Bxc6+ bxc6 10.exd4 Qb6 11.Ne2 Qb4+ 12.Qd2 Qxc4 13.b3 Qd5 14.0-0 Nh6 15.Bb2 Nf5 16.Nf4 Qb5 17.d5 0-0 18.Bxg7 Nxg7 19.dxc6 Qxc6 20.Rac1 Qb7 21.Rfe1 Rfc8 22.Nd5 Rxc1 23.Rxc1 Ne6 24.b4 h6 25.a3 Kh7 26.Qd3 Kg7 27.Qc3+ f6 28.Qd2 Kf7 29.Qa2 Rc8? 30.Re1! Rc2 31.Qxc2 Qxd5 32.Qe2(stopped taking notation)
0-1????
More: Chess
ganstaman 41 ( +1 | -1 )
You can put the position into the link I gave you. Assuming black played ...Nxg4 in the positiom you describe, the fen would be:

8/8/R3pk2/6p1/4K1n1/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

However, I want to flip the board around so I change the w to a b:

8/8/R3pk2/6p1/4K1n1/8/8/8 b - - 0 1

Using the notation at the bottom of this page, we get the diagram:


The tablebase says it's a draw unless white plays Rxe6 :)